Wednesday, November 15, 2006

We hereby name u..

*Laughter is the best medicine*..

I am glad that i have managed to make some of u laugh while reading my previous entry.....laugh..smile my dear friends.. for laughter and smiling will make u look younger :0)

Thanks funda for forwarding that mail :0)

my mind is suddenly stuck to a topic...

NAMES

Whatz ur name?
Whatz my name?
Do we have the same name?
Why did our parents name us the way they did?

My biggest challenge when it comes to names started when i come to turkey..they have these different letters in addition to the roman alphabet..

For example.. my biggest challenge..still my biggest challenge is to say the letters..

Ö as in Özgur
Ü as in Yüzmek

Ask any türks u know (i know some of u do have turkish acquaintance)..maybe they can pronounce that letter for u.. coz i still am not confident pronouncing it.. my tounge is so *keras* heheheh..i might just twist it if i try too much hahahaha

Then another dificulty arised when Mediha abla announced that there was a bun in the oven... eversince then, halil kept teasing me that we would name our child *bül bül* or any normal names with Ü or Ö... he knew that i wouldnt be able to say that word hahahahah

When we discovered that it would be a she..we started to crack our brains.. Malaysian name? turkish name? Since we r living in turkey, we both agreed that turkish name it would be.

i told him.. There is NO WAY..i repeat NO WaY.. my daughter will have a name with Ü or Ö as part of the spelling.. Hatice Zehra was our first choice...But then somebody pointed out that it is usually Fatma Zehra and not Hatice Zehra. I didnt like Fatma zehra.. then again we started to crack our brains for another name. I love turkish names such as ebru..but many people have that name.. Ayşe...Aynur..then, *Hatice* (pronounced Hatije) caught our mind. Hatice or *khadijah* in Malay refers to the name of the first wife of our Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W). Perfect! But then i wanted something that i can relate to Malaysian names as well..

U see.. in turkey, their names r simple. Generally people have one name and one surname..for example, halil (name) - Zaim (surname).. Only occasially, there r 2 names..and that usually the name of either the grandma or grandpa or auntie or uncle of that child.. An example.. Ülya Elif..
Ulya was anne's (my MIL) name..Elif is her original name... combined together... she becomes Ülya Elif (name) Zaim (surname)...Generally however, everyone has one name...plus the surname.

In Malaysia..on the other hand..names starting with Nor (i.e. Nor Hayati) for girls and Mohammad or Muhammad (Mohammad Ashraf) for boys r common.In fact, it is quite common nowadays for a child to have 3 names (i.e Nor Fazlin Zaharah).

ok..back to hatice..

like i said, i wanted something to relate her to my roots.. halil and i agreed on Hatice.. but since my name is *Nor*.. i wanted her to carry that name as well.. i managed to convince halil to add *Nur* to her name as well... *Nor is nur in arabic...* praying to Allah that the *Nur*..the *light* of our prophet's wife will shine in our daughter...And so she was named

Nur Hatice

(There is *Hatice Nur* in turkish but i wanna make sure she has a name part malaysia.. she is a mixed blood after all)

5 months after hatice's birth... Mediha abla announced another bun in the oven.. this time it was the opposite gender.. Yeay!! A Boy!! (oh geee..arent boys naughty??)

The name? we were quite cool about it.. sweet baba had written a list of possible names we could use to name our son. The list trust me was longgggg... he had thought long n hard for that list. Halil noticed that he had added his deceased brohters' names as well in the list. On top of that, he had added his own name!! Halil felt that that was his way of saying.. *if u want u can name ur son after my name, i'd be glad*...

Halil being the sweet son understood his silent request.. Frankly speaking,i was against the idea.. to me, u name a child after a grandpa or a grandma after that person is no longer alive. My main concern was..*How can i scold my son in front of his grandpa with the same name? imagine if i say..-Sabahaddin..dont be naughty-..n there is Sabahaddin the grandpa (dede) around as well??* U know what i mean, right?


But knowing how much respect halil has for his dad....we decided to name our son Sabahaddin..I deliberately make sure that his name be written as Sabahaddin n not sabahattin (as the grandpa) for two main reasons...

1. *Sabah* means dawn
*Din* means religion
Sabahaddin means *the dawn of the religion*..but with *tin*..it wont mean that. A child should have a meaningful name in my opinion.

2. Even though baba was born n named as Sabahaddin..the birth registry office made a mistake n had written his name as Sabahattin. with my son being Sabahaddin, he will have his own name..not totally overshadowed by his grandpa's name or honourary reputation (though i always pray he will have his grandpa's reputation as well)

The funny thing is..we never did tell Anne of baba's *hint* to name our son using his name.. Else, Anne would surely have scolded baba!! hehehehehe..i can even hear her saying to baba..

*onların çocuğu'un ismi, sen niye karışiyorsun ki?*
(It's their child's name. Why do u need to interfere??)

*chuckles*
Yup.. Anne, bless her, was one very dominant lady in making sure the family stays as one :0) ..u'd say she was the person who united the family..though now Meşe is taking over that role..

and yup..

SABAHADDİN

it is..
Names in Malaysia n Turkish.. hmmm..

We in Malaysia r named without a surname..

To illustrate:
Nor Hayati (name) binti (indicating that she is a girl..we use bin for boys) Zainal (the father's name)

However, turkish people have surnames..

An example:
Mehveş (name) Tarım (surname)

just imagine.. if my kids were born in Malaysia, they would have been named:

Nur Hatice binti Halil
(Now she is Nur Hatice Zaim)

And baddin would be..

Sabahaddin bin Halil
(now he is Sabahaddin Zaim)

and halil

would be ..

Halil bin sabahattin...
( now he is halil Zaim)


Zaim is the surname (family name)..ala mcm orang cina la kan.. ada family name..*ooi*.. *tan*..*loke*


The conclusion is (from their comments so far) : Ramai yg confuse baca entry ni!! hahahahaha maaf la yea.. putar putar belit kejap.. :0)

ok la.. nak simpulkan..hatice nama dia ada *nur* sebab mak dia nak ada perkataan tu kat nama anak dia.. baddin pulak nama dia diambik sempena nama atuk dia..(siap bagi hint lagi my mentua haha).. homework for the weekend... *cuba memahami entry ni* hehehe

HAVE A NİCE WEEKEND EVERYONE!
SEE U NEXT MONDAY!


Thank You for hopping by..Hope to see U again next time....

28 Comments:

Blogger Alinlai said...

wah...payah gak nooo nak bagi nama anak hang...mujur hang cekap :) dapatlah nama campuran Melayu Turki...

Thursday, 16 November, 2006  
Blogger Sherin de Souza said...

wahhhhh..... bagus your explanation ni Simah. I think your kids have nice names. :)

Beautiful names to match their beautiful faces.. :)

Thursday, 16 November, 2006  
Blogger Mummy Rizq said...

wo.. that's interesting! hatice is a very unique name though...

Thursday, 16 November, 2006  
Blogger simah said...

alinlai
******
kalau tak cekap habihla my kids terus totally nama turki..mana aci mcm tu.. kena fair n square la kan? :0)

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Sherin
******
thanks 4 the compliment..ur kids pun sama jugak.. cuteeeeeeeeee..(tak sabar nak cium depa)..

i think it is nice to record the history of why we named them Nur Hatice n Sabahaddin..bukan senang ooo.. :0)

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marlina baharom
***************
i like the pronounciation of her name.. mcm manja ja..i think i had an entry of the video she pronounced her name ..

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Thursday, 16 November, 2006  
Blogger aNIe said...

Simah...berkali-kali jugak kak lady ni baca sebab nak pahamkan bab sabahaddin...sabahattin...halil...zaim...hehehe

Seb baik duduk kat Turki guna surnames kan...kalau pakai bin mau pening jugak..

Thursday, 16 November, 2006  
Blogger simah said...

kak lady
*******
heheh maaf la yea sebab saya mengkonfiouskan akak..

memang pening jugak..tapi masalahnya sekarang..atuk dan lelaki cucu nama depa..

Sabahattin Zaim (atuk)
Sabahaddin Zaim (cucu)

bila disebut nama tu tak dapat differentiate sangat the spelling difference..so ada la hari tu.. we were all talking about sabahattin Zaim (dede) and baddin approached halil n he said in turkish ditranslate ke BI(baba..they r talking about me!!) hahahahahah... mistaken identity pulak hahahaha

We all owe hatice one for creating the name *baddin* to call her lil bro :0)

Thursday, 16 November, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i hope you will not have to pening kepala for the next bun eh?

Thursday, 16 November, 2006  
Blogger Shami said...

simah, selamat berblog kembali kita yer....pening kepala cik nak faham cerita hang ni....kira buat2 faham sajalah...he..he jangan marah.....

Thursday, 16 November, 2006  
Blogger Kak Elle said...

a bit confusing at first but after reading again I guess understood lah.

Thursday, 16 November, 2006  
Blogger simah said...

mama sarah
*********
i tunggu ur bun first :0) u bila lagi?

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Shami
******
buat ja paham paham.. memang entry ni putar belit kejap hehehe

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kak elle
********
gamaknya semua yg baca entry ni berapa kali la diaorang ulang utk memahami isi dia yea? pandai jugak saya mengconfusekan semua orang heheh
i can hear people saying..
*apa ni..beat around the bush..tergeliat otak nak baca* :0)

********************************

Thursday, 16 November, 2006  
Blogger rad said...

Salam & greetings from Bei Jie..
Ni hao ma? Heheheh..been bz, jz got a breather today.

You know what, all thi while I've reading Hatice as 'Hatis' (as in 'petis'). Ghopenya Khatijah! LOL. Baddin tu pulak Salahaddin mcm dlm Sallehudin al-Ayubi tu ke?

If I got my own son, definitely named Adam coz starts with 'A', it's my late ayah's name too & jugak nama nabi kan.

Er...another bun in the bun? Heheheh.Eloklah turut meramaikan umat Nabi SAW kan...tak termampu saya nak buat but you can!

Friday, 17 November, 2006  
Blogger simah said...

lah
****
*hugs*..glad u r ok.. nanti i balas email u ya? tak sempat ..ari ni ari jumaat ..

it is very normal actually for the türks to want to name their children or grandchildren the loved relatives' name...it happens all the time..

u tak pakai surname family yue? hehehe padan la ur MIL anti kat u heheheheh *menantu degil* heheheh..abis tu ibrahim pakai *bin* ker? eh *soylamis* tu bukan surname ker?

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rad
***

*wo hen hau* (eh betul ke spelling)
dah siap fly pi beijing..padan la senyap..

nampak sangat u baca entry tu selaju kilat..terconfuse mcm orang lain...

nama anak i..
SABAHADDİN...bukannya Selahaddin..

tak ada kena mengena dengan selahaddin or salahuddin cik hah oii... :0)

another bun? mana ada..iskh pandai pandai ja budak nih hahahaha

bila balik malaysia?
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Friday, 17 November, 2006  
Blogger simah said...

*menantu hantu?* hahahah u said it not me :0)

i can imagine mesti Yue pening masa korang baru kawin dulu? nak sebelahkan isteri ker nak sebelahkan mak sendiri..dah la syurga dia dibawah tapak kaki anne dia..tapi takkan bini tak defend kot? hehe..

*inatçi keçi* betul u ni lah..:0)

i pun legally tak pakai surname kat sini...masa kitaorang kawin kat mesia, we didnt register our marriage kat turkish consulate....

i tak kisah sangat pasal surname ni..becoz i know masa baby dulu..masa azan dibaca kat my telinga.. i was named *my name*..with binti nama ayah i..kira i ni dah diregister kat dlm record Allah nama tu (in my opinion la)..tukar nama tu tak penting sangat..jangan tukar agama sudah..

cuma yg lecehnya kat sekolah hatice.. bila nak tulis nama anne dia.. when i put *binti*..not halil's surname..mula la diaorang ingat i dengan halil dah divorce ka..separate ka ..(Allah korusun la kan)..

Friday, 17 November, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

waz here...:) as always, nice to read ur entries...

idham

Friday, 17 November, 2006  
Blogger Queen Of The House said...

oooooooo .... macam tu rupanya nak sebut nama Hatice :-) Cute bunyinye!

Kat Malaysia ni boleh juga kalau nak pakai surname tak letak bin/binti, cuma tak ramai orang Melayu yang buat. I have friends who adopt that style (macam yang ada nama2 Merican tu) and who also went to the registration department to legally drop the binti from their names. Depa ni kawin Omputih & tinggal overseas and I can understand why they did it ..... senang sikit when it comes to official matters (nak guna nama sama macam dlm passport). Some pulak, bila register nama anak, guna surname husband saja, tak ada bin/binti. It can be legally done here, in fact, dulu at one time kerajaan ada galakkan orang Melayu guna surname, senang kalau nanti nak trace asal usul.....

Friday, 17 November, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Queen, when we registered the birth of Sarah (and later Amar) the registry office and immigration (yg buat passport tu) galakkan kita letak Binti or Bin.

By galakkan, i mean = lebih kurang force. Depa kata senang bila balik msia nak buat ic nanti.

i tak faham apa kaitannya. tapi tak delah kita engkar. cuma bila di UK ni can be tedious sometimes bila nak isi borang kena ikut nama dlm passport.

katalah nama ahmad bin albab
first name: ahmad
surname: albab

abih tu - bin tu kita nak letak kat mana? first name or surname?

ramai mat saleh yang particular sikit nanti kata "ahmad albab" tak sama dengan "ahmad BIN albab". bab nama ni di UK ni can be very complicated. yang selalu holding up queue kat airport selalunya orang melayu macam kita ni yang nama berderet2 panjang! seriously.

tu i cari nama simple yang ada makna for my kids insyaAllah. kot2lah diaorang besar esok2 akan travel merata dunia. cewah. ibu yang berpandangan jauh ni. heh heh.

Friday, 17 November, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

simah, adakah saya telah memecah record sebagai pengomen terpanjang di blog anda?

hahaha ada sediakan hadiah tak?

Friday, 17 November, 2006  
Blogger Queen Of The House said...

Hehehe Mama Sarah ni ada-ada saja.
Ooops Simah, tumpang comment ye ....

Agaknya memang senang kalau ada bin or binti in M'sia. My friends yang nama tak ada binti tu kena ejek, kena perli ..... kesian, macam tak ada bapa pula (seriously! cikgu-cikgu kat sini kenapalah ek?). But they find it much easier bila overseas. Like in the US, sometimes you are asked to fill in first, middle, and last (sur)names. Dah orang Melayu yang ada tiga empat nama plus the bin/binti menggelabah tak tahu nak buat macamana. I ended up being called by my first name (I ada 2 nama) whereas I prefer going by my 2nd, and my surname ended up being the 2nd part of my father's name (whereas i would prefer to use the 1st part kalau tak dua-dua sekali). I pandai jugalah sebab tak letak binti in all my registrations (pedulikan apa nama dalam passport!). And to solve the surname problem, I just hyphenated my father's name(s), hahaha!

Kalau nasib tak baik, terjadi macam some people kena panggil Mr Bin!

Friday, 17 November, 2006  
Blogger simah said...

idham
*****
thanks 4 being here.. u tengah cuti dari berblog ka? dont be away for too long.. i think many r missing ur entries.

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Queen of the house & Mama Sarah
*******************************
nanti i suruh hatice cium u both sebagai hadiah :0)

the more the merrier heheheh hidup sikit comment section ni..i actually love it bila ada orang comment panjang panjang :0)

Memang pakai surname ni rasanya senang sikit esp kalau nak trace family members.. tapi ada satu masalah.. bila ada the daughter of the family tu kawin dengan a guy. dia akan guna surname suami dia. Jadi dalam registration office, dia (the girl) telah terkeluar dari salasilah keluarga surname bapak dia..
let me explain..
mcm hatice nanti. sekarang dia surname zaim.. she is under the family tree of the zaim family (legally).. katakan dia kawin dengan a guy with a surname seneroğlu*..jadi hatice akan jadi Nur Hatice Seneroğlu..dia akan legally masuk dlm computer under seneroğlu family tree..dan secara automatically, nama dia akan terkeluar dari family tree zaim dalam computer walaupun dia dilahirkan sebagai zaim..

jadi for girls esp..kalau nak trace the family history unless u know the change of surnames (nama surname lama)..memang susah nak trace the roots..

if i am not mistaken la kan..dalam segala urusan rasmi i la kan..i am written as

name : Nor ....
surname: binti Zainal

so binti tu dah jadi part of my surname....

akak queen.. kerajaan galakkan pakai surname? bila tu? tak pernah dengar pun? apa reaction penduduk malaysia?

heheheh akak ni memang pandai tak pakai binti masa registration.. abis anak akak pun tak pakai bin n binti ka?

mama sarah.. anak u la ni british citizen ka atau malaysian citizen?

Friday, 17 November, 2006  
Blogger simah said...

lah
****
kat malaysia pulak the other way around.. if we had registered our marriage kat british consulate, i would automatically had gotten a turksih citizenship (which i would have rejected anyway coz malaysia does not accept dual citizenship)n my surname would have been halil's surname. instead i had to go thru the tedious n hassle procedures in getting our marriage registered in istanbul...trust me it was no fun..

now i use halil's surname for non official things.. susah la nak explain why i am not zaim bla bla bla to everybody all the time....

i la ni duduk kat sini on permanent resident status.. tu pun lecehnyaaaaaaaaa nak renewwwwwwww...

Friday, 17 November, 2006  
Blogger Mulan said...

haaakkk.. sampai kecik biji mata nak baca d whole story. ok la, halfway pun dapat faham. apa2 pun janji nama kita maksudnya bukan yang hina & keji. u've got beautiful kids with beautiful names..

Friday, 17 November, 2006  
Blogger Idham said...

amboiiii...seronoknya baca entry dan comments yg panjang2 nie...
nice...nice.....now lebih mengetahui....

and, psst...ur previous entry made me laughh too...

idham

Friday, 17 November, 2006  
Blogger Lollies said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Saturday, 18 November, 2006  
Blogger Lollies said...

i understood the story because this interests me alot. i think this is culture and a mixed culture that is. very very interesting. Good that you record this down. tell to the children one day.

and now i know how to pronounce Hatice. eh i think you need to put how to pronounce as welllah the other word you wrote in Turkish. Tapi banyak sangat nak tulis ek? he he

Saturday, 18 November, 2006  
Blogger simah said...

mulan
*****
thank u for the compliment.. urs pun apa kurangnya.. yg penting diaorang membesar menjadi manusia yg baik kan? :0)

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idham
******
*grins*.. glad u did laugh reading the previous entry.. my fav is the one on *beautiful but stupid* hahahhaha every wife should remember that joke hahahah

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lollies
*******
yup..i guess ur friend's second name would be his surname..n not his dad's name ..

i am in the process of writing n documenting stories of their lives..bla bla bla.. n p
printing them pakai printer for both baddin n hatice.. but it will take a long time... luckily some materials r already in my blog.. so senang sikit kerja i..

nak record sound ni kena tunggu digital camera ka.. sound recording gadget ka..none at the moment.. tunggu la..bila ada rezeki ka u will see more of turkish pronounciation in this blog :0)

heheh

Sunday, 19 November, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh...ingat ke Hatice tu sebut dgn C, bunyi macam nama French, hehe...

Sunday, 19 November, 2006  
Blogger simah said...

tak... *c* in turkishis pronounced as *j*..jadi bunyi sebutan *hatice* menjadi sebutan manja.. elok la nama budak pompuan manja sikit kan :0)

Sunday, 19 November, 2006  
Blogger Lollies said...

eh mana you tau i tulis pasal kawan i tu. ha ha ha. you can read the deleted comments eh?

Monday, 20 November, 2006  

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